Wednesday, April 06, 2011

I Cut My Spending and I'm Still Broke

I used to have the American Dream (or what should be the American Standard). I own a very modestly priced home (by Florida standards) I have my own car, I'm insured (sorta) and I have a decent job. I used to be able pay for all these things and still have some left over for a nice vacation or an improvement on my house etc. Now I just can't seem to keep things afloat. What happened? Well there were 2 major events that caused this shortage:

1. I ended a 10 year relationship (that should have ended after year 2). This cause me to be a single income household rather than have 2 incomes.

2. The economy took a giant dump and I was forced to take a big pay cut at my job.

So, I've been trying to adjust. I've cut out all the extra things I used to enjoy and only pay for what I truly need. I got rid of magazine subscriptions, cut my cable bill, searched for cheaper insurance (which lowered my benefits), cut entertainment costs such as going out for dinner or a drink and only spend things on necessities - food, clothing (ha!), shelter, health-care . Still - I'm not quite making it - even by mowing lawns and doing handyman jobs on the side.

You see - I don't have a spending problem. I've taken control of my spending and cut out all those things that were not really needed. What I have is a REVENUE problem. The sad fact is that I will not get my budget balanced unless I get a better paying job, a second job, or somehow inherit some money.

Our country is in the very same spot. We were doing very well for a while then the economy took a dump and now we can't pay for things we want or even truly need. We can cut and cut and cut our spending, but the sad fact is that we have a revenue problem and not just a spending problem. Those who want to cut benefits for education, the elderly, disabled and sick - without first fixing the revenue problem must have a vested interest in that course of action at the expense of those less fortunate.

Fixing the USA's revenue problem is far easier than fixing mine. All we have to do is close tax loopholes and force corporations and the wealthy to pay their fair share. That, combined with some careful spending cuts should get us on the right track quite quickly.

As for me - I suppose I could sell my house - find a job somewhere with a cheaper cost of living and give up my life as I know it. Not yet! I'm gonna work a few extra hours and try to fix my revenue problem first. I got a roommate and I'll do whatever is necessary to increase my revenue so I can balance my budget. I simply can't do it just by cutting spending - the math doesn't add up.

41 comments:

Andre said...

Times are tough, that's for sure. I don't mean to make light of your struggles, but if you are going to draw an analogy with the national situation there is always the Obama approach: rather than dealing with difficult spending cuts, which are painful no matter how you approach it, you could just quadruple your spending and keep borrowing more money year after year to make the interest payments.

After all, you only have to keep that type of lunacy going for eight years (hopefully only four!) and then it becomes someone else's problem.

Oh, wait a minute.....

denbec said...

In the middle of all this insanity - less than a year ago - I had major tooth issues. I had to have a root canal - 2 crowns and gum reduction surgery. Practically none of it was covered by my so called "insurance". It was all necessary procedures and I had no choice but to charge it on my credit card. I've been working very hard with extra side jobs to pay it all off and I'm almost there. I'm exhausted but I still have my teeth! So I had to charge a bit to pay necessary expenses. But I certainly couldn't have paid any of those charge card bills without some extra revenue.

True story.

Anonymous said...

Oh, don't we all have issues like that Dennis? Same thing happened to me when I joined my husband in Germany. One of my crowns came off (which had just been repaired when I HAD dental insurance) so we had to pay out of pocket to get it redone. The dentist said 'sure, I can re-mount it (whatever the term was) but your tooth underneath needs to be redone to mount it correctly.' Too bad so sad. Had to be done.

How else can you pay for these things if you don't have credit? That's the question that comes before any of us was born. Our generations have had access to credit. You can use it when needed for things like this, or you can abuse it and shop til you drop! It's all about moderation.

And the government deficit started growing in 2001. Right after 9/11. I could put out some links but apparently FACTS aren't appreciated by some of your commentators here. I rather appreciate FACTS and comments backed up by links from reliable sources.

And to answer your previous question Mr. Andre, no I don't read newspapers anymore. I get my news on-line. I HAD to while I lived abroad so that 'habit' never quit. We get the Sunday paper for the fluff pieces and coupons, but I don't read the paper anymore. If I can get news and opinion online, why get a stinky inky paper that only goes in the recycle bin?

Have a great day.

Lisa in Indy

Andre said...

Ouch! What a drag.

Now just try to imagine what you would have done if you had no more access to credit.

That's exactly where Obama's completely unprecedented spending is leading the nation.

Greece. Portugal. That's were we are headed. We can't just keep sticking our heads in the sand and pretending that it's not coming.

We need courageous, principled leadership NOW to begin to head this national train wreck off. So far the President has been punting (actually, he's been doing worse than that, he's been throwing continuous interceptions):

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Andre said...

Lisa
And to answer your previous question Mr. Andre, no I don't read newspapers anymore. I get my news on-line.

Andre
You completely misunderstood the point of my question.

I wasn't literally inquiring what news media form you usually access. I was asking why your criticism for certain policies seem to stop at the previous President, when the current President is not only continuing those very same policies, but putting them on steroids.

Give it another shot,if you want, but check your ammo first: you're shooting blanks.

denbec said...

Oh I just love it when conservatives use the debt clock! We were using it while they held the Presidency. LOL

Andre - will you admit that that a vast majority of our current national debt comes from several endless wars? Why is all the blame being placed on President Obama (even though he is continuing those wars)? While W. was in office they didn't even include the cost of the wars in the budgets! We are including it - it makes a HUGE difference.

Andre said...

Den
...will you admit that that a vast majority of our current national debt comes from several endless wars?

Andre
No, why would I admit to something that I know is factually untrue?

Do the math:

The current U.S. National debt is officially about 14.2 trillion dollars (this, of course, is a rather misleading number because it does not include any of the governments unfunded liabilities;if you took those into account also then the real National Debt would be well over 100 trillion dollars! But since we are not currently paying interest on those items, we will ignore them for now).

Estimates on the total cost of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars vary somewhat, but most sources place the combined total (through today) at around 1.7 Trillion

(http://costofwar.com/en/)

By my quick back of the napkin calculations, 1.2 trillion is around 8.45% of 14.2 trillion.

Granted, 1.2 trillion is still a hell of lot of dough; it is a "HUGE" amount of money, but it is no way near a "majority" of the 14.2 trillion National Debt.

Here is another way to look at it: 1.2 trillion is about 27.5 % of the 4 trillion that President Obama has added to the national debt in just the last two years.


Den
Why is all the blame being placed on President Obama...

Andre
It's not. Much of the blame goes to previous administrations and Congresses (if you had listened to any "Right Wing" radio, or read The Wall Street Journal, or National Review(and other conservative publications) during the Bush years, you would have heard plenty of conservatives complaining about it...as a matter of fact, I first became aware of the existence of the National Debt Clock from Rush Limbaugh!).
But the fact remains that Barack Obama is the President now. He asked for the job, and as Candidate Obama, he promised to cut the national debt "in half" during his first term. Instead, he has blown the debt through the roof, and has proven to have absolutely no competency (or even interest, apparently) in attempting to reduce it at all.

Andre said...

Typo: that first 1.7, should have been 1.2 ( but I guess that was fairly obvious from the following context).

I'm really bad with numbers. It must come from all those years I spent as a registered Democrat.

Anonymous said...

Ha ha...Andre admits to listening to Limpdick!!! Do you want fries with that? McDonald's is hiring; you should go work there.

What a tool.

Lisa in Indy

Andre said...

For the record, and in the extremely unlikely event that anyone is following this blog, let me just say this:

I SWEAR TO GOD, that "Lisa" is not a fictional character that I have created just to undermine the credibility of the Left.

I repeat: she is NOT part of some devious PsychOps Propoganda Campaign that I have created merely to unmask and lampoon the intellectual vacuousness, and just plain mean-spirited nastiness, of the far-Left.

No folks,I swear, she is for real.

This is really how they "think".

Andre said...

Also, notice the unmasked contempt for the working poor, and for people with physical disabilities.

This from the self-congratulating champions of "compassion".

Who was it that originally pointed out that the Left loves "the people" in theory, but hates them in reality?

Spot on.

denbec said...

Can't we all just get along? ;)

Andre - you may have not made up Lisa - but you sure have made up other characters - likely including Andre.

ie Mankind hating stuck pig said..

Please be civil in your discussions.

denbec said...

Andre - you want an example of contempt for the working poor and those with disabilities? Our Tea Party Governor Rick Scott just ordered an immediate 15% cut to care for Floridians with disabilities…on the same day he posed for photos at a Special Olympics event.

This was reported by Move-on.org - I haven't verified it yet but they did site their source.

It is the GOP who have no compassion for those less fortunate.

Andre said...

OMG

"..but you sure have made up other characters...ie Mankind hating stuck pig said.."

You have got to be kidding me.

SATIRE? Ever heard of it?

Andre said...

I did some quick online research about the moveon.org story that you mentioned, and it appears to be substantially correct.

Your Governor really is a freakin' Conan the Barbarian when it comes to cutting spending. holy crap!

While I can see the merit (necessity!) of many of his proposed cuts (high speed rail is an idiotic money pit waste of money)..I also think that unless it can be shown that there is substantial waste and inefficiency in the disabled services he is cutting (possible, but probably unlikely) he should leave that alone as long as possible (even if he has to make up that 15% by larger cuts elsewhere...maybe by cutting an additional few days of State Unemployment Benefit?).

We don't need to treat healthy able bodied people as if they were somehow disabled, but we do have a moral responsibility to assist the truly disabled.

I'd like to think that most of the Florida Tea Party folk would agree with that (but like I said, I don't know squat about Florida).

Thohea said...

Off topic response:

Last Tuesday our prince of a governor announced he would start random drug testing all state employees and welfare applicants. Currently its the state's policy to perform drug testing for certain positions (mine included) as a condition for hire but now he's wanting to force random tests on all state workers.

Here's the problem....

The state currently does it's routine testing through Quest Diagnostics (I had mine done there a few months ago) but now Solantic will be perfoming this function. In January, Scott had his $62 BILLION in controlling shares with Solantic transferred over to his wife's name.

A drug screen costs approximately $35. Now the Scott family will be profiting from these mandatory tests. (perfect way to funnel state money right into his bank account)

Until last week, Scott’s communications office in Tallahassee had ignored repeated requests for comment on the conflict of interest. On Friday, as national media began to call as well, the office issued this response:

Any perception that the governor’s business interests pose a conflict of interest with his health policies are "baseless and incorrect," said Scott’s deputy communications director, Brian Hughes.

Looks like we didn't have to wait long for the corruption to start, did we Dennis.

denbec said...

Andre - clearly you do not know Florida or the Tea Party. They are 100% behind this crooked Governor. They voted him in knowing his past criminal activity. They don't care. And what Thohea has just said is true and disgusting - but not at all surprising. Now investigate the "pill mill" controversy. That's a doosy!

I never gave much thought to high speed rail until President Obama suggested it. Now I can't help but think about what a boom for South Florida it would be to have a rail go in a loop from Tampa - to Orlando - to Daytona and the Space Coast - to Fort Lauderdale - and back to Tampa. This state depends on tourism and I can't think of a better way to help get those people moving - not to mention the the jobs it would create. I can't see how our Governor would miss this incredible business opportunity.

Andre said...

High speed rail is one of those ideas that sounds really good in theory, but it almost always results in far higher initial and continuing costs than originally predicted and far,far lower ridership. I myself find the concept of any type of rail appealing on a sort of aesthetic/cultural level, but I realize what a turkey it is economically.

Here in California, the State's own prediction is that it will end up costing more to ride high speed rail from SF to LA, than it would to fly! Good luck with that.

Possibly, in a geographically smaller state like Florida, the numbers might work better, and maybe in a booming economy, high speed rail would be an affordable boutique luxury...but, based on it's history, there are good reasons to be skeptical.

Whether or not Scott is a crook (and this Semantic deal really smells bad...plus, I find the idea of random drug testing offensive on purely libertarian grounds anyway),the fact still remains that on the high speed rail decision he did do what was in the best interest of the Florida Tax Payer (thus fulfilling a campaign promise he made to the voters).

Den
They voted him in knowing his past criminal activity. They don't care.

Andre
Well, that's not unprecedented in our history. In MA we have been voting Kennedys into office for over 50 years...a political dynasty founded on criminal activity and over the top corruption (although, it is probably true that most voters were unaware of that at the time they went to the polls, so maybe that's not a perfect comparison with Florida).

Andre said...

One last point about this 15% cut:

Naturally, everyone who stands to lose money from this cut is outraged, and predicting all sorts of dire consequences as a result...maybe,maybe not...special interests groups always predict disaster whenever they lose any funding, and usually it turns out later that it was mostly all just a bunch of hysterical rhetoric; remember welfare reform?

From Krauthammer's latest column (speaking about the Ryan Plan):

"When you hear this being denounced as throwing the poor in the snow, remember these same charges were hurled with equal fury in 1996. President Clinton’s own assistant Health and Human Services secretary, Peter Edelman, resigned in protest, predicting that abolishing welfare would throw a million children into poverty. On the contrary. Within five years child poverty had declined by more than 2.5 million — one of the reasons the 1996 welfare reform is considered one of the social-policy successes of our time."

Let us make a point of following up on this 15% cut in a year or two, and let's see if any of these dire predictions prove to have had any substantial substance or not.

Deal?

denbec said...

Rail mass transit might not be the most profitable business (which is why it hasn't been tackled by the private sector) but it is good for the poor, and good for the environment - the horror! It's also good for tourism and business in general if done properly which the GOP should find appealing. Sounds like a great compromise to me! BUT - the rails must have an appealing route - not just bits and pieces which will be what we will have if we allow the Tea Party to block this progress in their controlled areas.

Andre - Please present a proven Kennedy case (not a scandal but a proven case) that compares to the Medicare fraud case under the direction of Rick Scott. I realize that Mr. Scott managed to avoid convicted but that doesn't negate the fact that the case was proven. I'll admit my ignorance of the Kennedy's to begin with because they were a tad before my time. Just a tad.

denbec said...

On your welfare point Andre - I can't argue that there are those that abuse this system - as there are those that abuse the Wall Street system. That doesn't say that either system is un-needed but rather that both need to be reformed properly. We can't just simply "end" either program - we need to make smart choices when dealing with these regulations. A machete is rarely smart. Yet it seems to be the only tool used by the Tea Party.

Andre said...

Ah, the Kennedy's! What a fascinating and sordid history. If you don't know the Kennedy story, you are missing out on what is probably the most fascinating political family story in American history.

Don't be misled by some of the current representatives of that greatly diminished clan...they are nothing more than inbred & stunted Irish-American idiots compared to the previous generation, whose amazing (often grotesque) larger-than-life exploits are positively Shakespearian in scale and character.

Where to even begin?

The family fortune was primarily based on patriarch Joe Kennedy's lucrative ( and of course, totally criminal) whiskey bootlegging during Prohibition. Originally, Joe Sr, had Presidential ambitions, but he managed to completely sabotage himself by his enthusiasm for Hitler (not before making additional millions doing business with Nazi Germany). After a disastrous appointment by FDR (who hated and distrusted Joe Sr. "Keep your friends close, but your enemies even closer")as Ambassador to England during the early days of WWII, Joe Sr, shifted his political ambitions to his sons, eventually buying the little known JFK his first congressional seat...

No,wait..I can't do this story justice...it's way too big and complex to attempt in a commbox.

The literature on this family is huge and, did I mention, fascinating.

Here is a brief sampling of just some of the mayhem by renowned Left wing journalist Seymour Hersh. Fix yourself the beverage of your choice, settle into your favorite comfy seat, and enjoy (it's better than any spy-sex-murder-corruption-lethal combat politics novel you will ever read):

http://bztv.typepad.com/Winter/DarkSideSummary.pdf


After reading the above link you will see that Scott is strictly Mickey Mouse compared to the Kennedy dynasty
( not to mention light years duller - no East German prostitutes, no sharing of pussy with Mafia king-pins,no blackmailing of huge corporations (and no being black-mailed by huge corporations in return), no J.Edgar Hoover, no White House orgies, no blatantly stolen elections,no dead bodies,no CIA overthrows of Third World Governments, etc, etc.)

Anonymous said...

If you build it, they will come. High speed rail does well in every country I've visited. The only reason it doesn't do well here is because it's limited in distance and scope. If there was a rail from Indy to Chicago, I'd ride it at least two or three times a year. I live 5 miles to the nearest bus stop and yet, I'm still in the city limits. We didn't own a vehicle when we lived in Europe, so I know for a fact, that if the US had anything close to what they have in Europe, many many more people would use the system. Not only would it create jobs to build and maintain it, but think of all of those people that want to work somewhere else and can't because they can't get there with our current public transportation. Big oil has made sure that Americans depend on vehicles for the last century. It's time to minimize our dependency of oil and the only way to do that is to create another network of transportation in this country. Finally.
And I was stunned that FL voted in that criminal.
Lisa in Indy

denbec said...

Well Andre - I was about to spend some time reading that document on Kennedy but, thankfully, I did some research on the author first. Regarding this particular article - he is accused of having little if any facts to support his accusations. This is important in this type of case because if I were to believe all the hype about President Obama, I would have to accept that he is a undocumented Muslim alien who didn't even exist in physical form in his elementary school years. I'll need some better facts on the Kennedys.

Still - if you believe Rick Scott pales in comparison (pun intended) let's keep in mind he has only been in office for a couple of months and look at the controversy he has managed to accomplish so far!

Andre said...

Hersh would be a dubious source, no doubt, but most of these tales have been around long before his book. That was just a convenient short summary (plus I thought you would be more comfortable with Hersch since he is generally considered a hero by the Radical Left).

Most of the facts aren't even in dispute (the bootlegging fortune,the election fraud, the endless sexual shenanigans)...any mainstream biography of the Kennedys will cover most of that stuff...check it out.

Actually, Rick Scott does remind me a bit of Joe Sr., only not as interesting.

Andre said...

Lisa
High speed rail does well in every country I've visited.

Andre
I don't know this as a fact, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if, upon further research it turned out to be the case that there isn't a single country in the world (not just Europe) where a commuter rail system actually pays for itself. I strongly suspect very few of them could stay afloat without significant government subsidies.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I know that here , at least, Amtrak has never even come close to breaking even.

Lisa
If there was a rail from Indy to Chicago, I'd ride it at least two or three times a year.

Andre
Two or three times a year?! And for this we should waste billions and billions of dollars on high speed rail systems which will never pay for themselves?

And would you really? Would you take the train to Chicago if you could fly there in a quarter of the time, and for half the price?

Americans aren't Europeans. Americans don't want to ride trains. They want to drive their cars, or fly to a destination and get then hop into a rental car, so that they can go exactly where they want, when they want.

I'm not saying that is necessarily a good thing; that is just the reality of the situation.

I am not a particular fan of the American car -culture myself. That's one reason why I live in a small, human scale city like San Francisco. I ditched my F-150 and the mini-van a few years ago and bought a Surly LHT, and never looked back. I ride my bike, I walk, I take buses and trolleys (I know, I know...you don't come here to read about my life...but there is a point to all this) I like it that way, but at the same time I have no illusions about the fact that I am in an extreme minority, and that the vast majority of Americans would think that my choices in this regard are just plain nuts.

If you are freaked out about the emergence and influence of the Tea Parties now, just wait until you shove high speed rail down their throats ( and have to raise their taxes astronomically to pay for it to be built and continue to be subsidized forever!).

Here's a short summary about some recent research which shows how Americans couldn't care less about high speed rail:

http://blog.american.com/?p=27789

Anonymous said...

When I lived abroad, they had bike lanes for riders. Everyone was required to register their bike for safety reasons and they were inspected every year for compliance. Everyone wore a helmet.

They had buses that took the children to school instead of 'yellow school buses' and they had trains that ran from 6am to midnight, every single day of the week. During the midnight hours, they had what they called 'night buses'. They didn't run the typical routes so cabs backed up for those riders that needed to get to a specific place. The cabs fares were controlled so that customers were not cheated or over-charged for their convenience.

Most of the neighbors in my apartment block did not drive to work. They took the train or bus. If they owned the car, they used it for trips to the grocery store or after hours and on vacation. Insurance premiums were pretty high.

And that's what my husband and I did while we lived abroad. We took a high speed train to Strasbourg France. It was actually faster than driving because the rails went 200 mph. Your ears would pop when it hit those speeds. We also took the train to Zurich once too. Same thing. A 3 hour drive took 2 hrs by train - (there were several stops).

And yes, the government subsidized the rail and the employees were unionized. The horror! Germany has the most on-time efficient train network in the world. Only in Japan were the trains faster. But how else can you allow your family to live without a gas guzzling pollution spewing vehicle? You have to have a good network of transportation for your citizens.

Americans don't want high speed rail eh? Unless they've been abroad, Americans don't know how efficient or cost effective they are. We had a massive rail system in this country before big oil controlled the politicians in this country. What if we granted those oil subsides to rail instead of oil? I bet we could build a rail network in this country in 10 yrs to rival the ones abroad.

Oh, and in the far east, they also used rail too. The cleanest rail I ever rode was in Singapore. I didn't much enjoy visiting a police state like that. You could get arrested for spitting.
Lisa in Indy

denbec said...

When we visited Amsterdam we rode rail and trams throughout the entire area and never had to pay for a cab or even walk too far.

The problem with the GOP is that they can't consider anything unless it generates a profit. Well, it is true that public transportation doesn't typically create much if any profits - most projects even lose some money. That's why the private sector hasn't taken on the challenge of public transportation. Regardless - it is the right thing to do. Other developed countries have realized that a well run public transportation system is the backbone of a strong economy and also has ecological and societal benefits (keeping drunks off the road etc)as well. Americans are stupid not to follow the lead on these projects since clearly we have failed to be the leaders.

Andre said...

Aha! Gotcha!

Lisa
abroad...everyone wore a helmut...

Andre
I though NO ONE in Europe wore a helmet? ( I'm assuming you were referring to Europe?)

Go to Copenhagen Cycle Chic and browse all the photo's and watch some of the street scene videos. You will see literally thousands of people riding their bicycles all over the city and you will be hard pressed to locate a single bicycle helmet!

See, I knew you were full of crap, and now I have the proof!
(joking, although the point about the helmets is serious)

Anonymous said...

I didn't live in Copenhagen and have never been there. I lived in GERMANY and they have many laws and wearing a helmet was one of them.

We also went to Amsterdam twice and we were nearly run over by bicycle riders there as they outnumber vehicles. They have a great transportation network which also includes ferries on their canals. Loved Amsterdam and hope to go back again some day.

I think what bothers conservatives most is that America is NOT the leader in transportation; AT ALL. And they don't like to hear that another country or most of them on this earth have figured out that an energy policy is not only a good thing for the environment but as you mentioned, good for the economy. Because if your citizen residents can't afford a vehicle, they aren't stranded at home. We didn't own a vehicle in Europe and saved thousands of Euros on car payments, insurance, gas, maintenance fees and licenses. A trip to town cost barely 5 Euros.

Oh and I forgot to mention yesterday; high speed train trips from Stuttgart to Paris - four hours one way. No radiation from scanners, no pat downs or molestations at airports either. What's not to love about that?

Lisa in Indy

Andre said...

Lisa
I think what bothers conservatives most is that America is NOT the leader in transportation; AT ALL.

Andre
Really? You think that is what bothers conservatives most?

I would venture to guess that you would be hard pressed to find even one American conservative who has ever even given a single moments thought to the fact that we are less enamored of rail service than Europeans. I don't think that conservatives are bothered by that in the least (nor are the vast majority of Americans, conservative or not, according to the polls).

The automobile has become part of the American soul. In Bruce Springsteen's "Thunder Road", that great anthem to American wanderlust for the open road and the promise and aspiration to seek out a better life and better opportunities, the hero of the song coaxes Mary off her front porch with the offer that

"...my car's out back...The door's open ..."

I don't think "my high speed rail's out back...I've got two passes." quite packs the some romantic promise, or can capture the same exultant passion as:

"...roll down the window
And let the wind blow
Back your hair
Well the night's busting open
These two lanes will take us anywhere."

Can you even open the windows on high speed rail carriages? (They certainly won't "take us anywhere.")

Americans have always had a love affair with the automobile, because they view them as freedom machines ("...let's trade in these wings for some wheels.")

Bottom line: the vast majority of Americans don't give a crap about rail service. Americans love cars, always have, always will. They love the freedom and independence that cars bring into their lives.

On the other hand, I suspect it is because of that very freedom and independence that Liberals, who are so emotionally and psychologically committed to Nanny State social engineering, and an elitist "I know what is better for you" urge to direct and control every individuals free market choices, tend to hate and fear cars so much.

Now THAT is something that actually does bother conservatives.

It bothers them very much.

denbec said...

Andre - that is some classic backwards thinking the GOP is famous for. Thankfully we have the Democrats to do the forward progressive thinking. Otherwise we would be stuck were we were.

Anonymous said...

Bwahaaa haaa haaaaa ;snort, omg, ha ah ha ha ha...okay...breathe....ha ha ha, just breathe, snicker, sorry. can't. stop. laughing.

B R U C E !!!!1!

U.S.A. U.S.A.



Lisa in Indy

Andre said...

Dennis, whether such thinking is "backwards" or not is irrelevant to the point I was making...it is the reality of the situation and no amount of wishful thinking on your part is likely to change it.

Americans will enthusiastically embrace high speed rail right about the time that they suddenly realize what an awesome sport professional soccer is.


Lisa, are you OK? You sound like you are having a spastic fit.

Either that, or you debate like a twelve year old (which is probably unfair to most intelligent twelve year olds).

denbec said...

I agree Andre that some Americans - (at least half that call themselves "right") are vehemently resistant to change and thus we earn our world wide title as "Stupid Americans". Don't even get me started on the metric system.

Andre said...

Den
...some Americans - (at least half that call themselves "right") are vehemently resistant to change ...

Andre
Lazy post, Dennis.

Way too simplistic.

You seem to be saying that all change, by definition, must be for the better (need I remind you that your new Governor is very much into change!).

There is intelligent change, and there is foolish change. Good change, and bad change.

Ultimately, each issue needs to stand or fall on it's own merits.

All I'm saying is that the majority of Americans, for whatever reasons, are culturally disinclined to embrace high speed rail at any where near the level required to make it an economically viable option.

This is especially the case during a period of dramatically increasing Federal and State deficits, and declining budgetary resources, where we have to intelligently prioritize where we spend limited dollars.

Lisa inadvertently helps make this case for me with her comment "I live 5 miles to the nearest bus stop and yet, I'm still in the city limits." Although she is confusing inter-city transit such as high speed rail, with intra-city transit (buses, light rail, etc), I think her comment demonstrates that the billions that would be wasted on building what is surely to be an underutilized high speed rail network, would be much better spent improving and expanding existing transit systems.

It doesn't matter how many nearly empty high speed rail trains are running everyday between Indianapolis and Chicago; that isn't going to do anything to save her from having to walk 5 miles to catch a bus.

You said somewhere above that high speed rail was "good for the poor".
I don't think that is necessarily the case. For example, if it turns out to be true, as the State of California's own predictions claim, that a high sped rail ticket from LA to SF is going to cost more than a plane ticket between those same destinations, then you can pretty much bet that it won't be working class folk riding on those trains...it will mostly just be what I refer to as the Prius Class (wealthy white Liberals). They will make the trip once or twice a year, as a sort of self-congratulatory victory lap, just to demonstrate to anyone who might be watching how heroically green and enlightened they are.

Scott made the right call on this one.

denbec said...

I'm with Lisa when she says if we build it they will come. Here in S. Florida they built the Tri-Rail system as a temporary alternative during the I-95 construction way back in the late 80s. It connects 4 major cities. The construction was completed long ago and the Tri-Rail continues to be a popular alternative to the gridlock on I-95. Many people now depend on it. It's easy to say people won't use it when it doesn't even exist. And I can promise you that people won't use it if it isn't done properly (by having the Tea Party states not participate). Come on - get on board!

denbec said...

I also wanted to point out that building a new rail system doesn't take away your freedom to drive an automobile. It just gives us all more choices when it comes to travel.

Andre said...

Well, I will say this...I would likely be more sympathetic to the idea if we didn't have a 14.2 Trillion dollar National Debt that is almost certainly heading higher and higher in the years to come.

I just don't think we can afford it right now.

It's sort of as if you, given your current financial struggles, were obsessed with the red Maseratti in the showroom downtown, and determined to buy it this year. I try to stop you by saying "Dude, forget it, you can't afford it right now". And you reply "But it looks sooo cool!".

Dude, you can't afford it right now!

Den
I'm with Lisa when she says if we build it they will come.

Andre
I hear they built lots and lots of nice condo's in Miami just a few years ago....

Andre said...

CORRECTION TO LAST POST
(next morning): the National Debt is now 14.3 Trillion.

It has gone up approximately 100 Billion Dollars since I last posted a little over 12 hours ago (half a day!).

This nation is headed for a train wreck.

High speed? More like super-sonic!

denbec said...

That wreck happened long ago - after many unfunded wars and tax breaks. It takes a while for a train to stop moving but we need to apply the brakes first by cutting wasteful spending (not needed spending) and closing corporate tax loopholes.

President Obama alone did not create 14 T worth of debt (nor did the Republicans alone or the Democrats alone) We are in this together and we need to fix it TOGETHER. How can we make any progress if we can't even agree on what we disagree on?!